Comments on King Lud IC: Super Columbine Massacre RPG

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2006-09-14T18:18:00.000-04:00

Trackback (yes, this late):
http://nongames.blogspot.com/2006/09/on-montreal-tragedy-and-defending-games.html

Good Post. Great Discussion :)About the game: I do...

2006-07-17T05:03:00.000-04:00

Good Post. Great Discussion :)

About the game: I don't think it's the gameplay that is not suporting the artistic content, but that the problem is the general form.

Walking around and reading text is a fine form of interaction and can just as easilly be expresive as a fully dynamic system. However, if you just look at the name, it's terribly cliché and almost satirical... Thats a bad choice IMO, because it really gives a bad indication of the deeper sociological story line that the game clearly has. Aside from the pixelated pictures, it's the same with the graphics. (I haven't come to the shooting yet, so i cant comment on that part :/) The game just feels like its somehow mocking or marginalizing the entire event, while infact it's trying to do the opposite.

So in my opinion the game is a great effort, reasonable execution and poorly presentated. All in all a decent work of art.

As far as the controversy goes, I would say that we don't need to worry. I think it's progress what we are seeing and good for the industry.

Wow, I just stumbled onto this just now, don't kno...

2006-05-21T18:54:00.000-04:00

Wow, I just stumbled onto this just now, don't know the dates of when people commented. Here goes:

Anonymous the 1st - The link didn't work for me, but I joined the level design team on the recently renamed Play With Fire because I wanted to build a level modeled after 9-11, so I probably wouldn't be offended.

Anonymous the 2nd - I bet you can sell it to Take Two as a franchise.

Anonymous the 3rd - I don't officially condone the actions of murderers, no matter what their supposed rationalization, or their age. I do condone the spirit of where those two were coming from, as I experienced that state a long time ago and can relate, but I think Reb and Vodka were a bit too crude about their methods. Which brings me to the next comment...

Uniqueusername - surely you're comfortable enough with post-modern ironic self-reference that you can concede any informatic medium, despite being "only a film" or "only a play" or "only a song", ect. can nevertheless have meaningful impact on the fabric of society - take Beethoven's 9th for example, or Birth of a Nation. I'm not saying SCMRPG! is on par with the 9th, but its better than Piss Christ.

usapatriot - Thats good advice, I appreciate that. I'll try to do what I do with sincerity and focus. Instead of saying something vapid and smartalecky, I wish to ask you two questions: is it childish and narcissistic to protest using games in particular, or in any form in general?

If the prior, what is it about games that strikes you as inherently childish?

I'd also like to state that freedom of speech and the right to peaceful assembly are essentail rules embedded into the U.S. Bill of Rights, and I am patriotic to the extend that the essence of provisions like those on the Bill of Rights are respected. Eric and Dylan's actions aren't protected by those provisions, and rightfully so. Columbin's creation of the game, however, was not only protected by the U.S. Constitution, but a vital exercise of the freedom's our nation's basic law was designed to respect.

Artists can be more patriotic than those in power, and when I use the term "artist", I mean in the sense of a role, rather than a title.

Anyone can be (or has been) young, idealistic and ...

2006-05-17T20:18:00.000-04:00

Anyone can be (or has been) young, idealistic and stupid. To even refer to oneself as an 'artist' is the height of arrogance. That's for others to judge, frankly. It's a far more daunting proposition to simply be responsible. Protesting simply because you can, or writing a game for the same 'artistic' reason, is childish and narcissistic. -Rod-

it's just a fucking game...

2006-05-17T16:00:00.000-04:00

it's just a fucking game...

I give props to those two trenchcoat shooters if p...

2006-05-17T15:46:00.000-04:00

I give props to those two trenchcoat shooters if people were treating me with disrespect and bullying me I would of blown there motherfucking heads off too

Great debate here gentlemen. Conversations like t...

2006-05-06T02:15:00.000-04:00

Great debate here gentlemen. Conversations like this are the reason I made SCMRPG! Also, if I were a programmer by trade I'd give you some slightly better graphics (but not too much so as this was part of the aesthetic). Frankly I think what I bring to videogaming as an "outsider" who "makes his first game" is an important contribution if only for that reason. Thanks again!

-Columbin

How could you consider, then, the game mod 9/11 su...

2006-05-03T08:25:00.000-04:00

How could you consider, then, the game mod 9/11 survivor? (kinematik.org/911.html)?
Art? An insult?

(personally, I think SCMRPG! is one of the best computer game titles I've seen around, a fantastic use of game design, and game conventions, to promote a set of ideas and provoke reflection)

disclaimer: I'm hopelessly european - there is not much of a Columbine taboo in our understanding of media (nor we tend to blame our media for our own filth, or at least not so much, sorry to say - USA public moralists give me the creep)

I agree Micheal. Whats intersting about SCMRPG is ...

2006-04-27T02:40:00.000-04:00

I agree Micheal. Whats intersting about SCMRPG is how it works its satire through a pastiche of genre conventions, so while its interactivity isn't great, it still manages to squeeze out plenty of impact because of its subversive qualities.

While I can appreciate the sentiment that goes int...

2006-04-27T01:44:00.000-04:00

While I can appreciate the sentiment that goes into making games with thought-provoking narratives, characters, and settings, people right now are too focused on these elements that are common among many artistic mediums when they should instead (if they’re making games) be focusing on deriving artistry from an element unique to games – the play.

There’s no doubt games are capable of eliciting emotions through a variety of means. I just feel that in the context of creating great game art designers need to focus more on the game portion of the term. That's not to say that a game couldn't or shouldn't excel in other areas like story, graphics, or audio. However, I hope that the representatives of games as art in the future are those games that are best at utilizing gameplay as the main tool of artistic expression rather than the narrative or the graphics or the audio. After all, artistry through a well-crafted story isn't something unique to games. But artistry through interactivity is (at least predominantly so).

To Michael: I follow where you're going on the top...

2006-04-26T20:11:00.000-04:00

To Michael: I follow where you're going on the topic of it being art, but not good art, but I guess this whole area is still in its infancy. To applaud its idea while condemning its gameplay is a little like saying The Shining has fantastic acting and sound design but it could have been a little better on the lighting front. Like any medium, gaming has a huge number of elements of content that can convey meaning, and while ideally we'd be using all of them together to achieve a powerful impact, I think for now we're better served by the effective use of one element in a well-known creation so that we have a common point of reference to discuss that element with. (In this case, the element is genre, rather than interactivity.)

I agree that the game has its share of flaws, and ...

2006-04-26T16:15:00.000-04:00

I agree that the game has its share of flaws, and that from a pure gameplay perspective its far short of what is possible with interactivity in dealing with this topic. But the fact of the matter is, as non-robust as the form of the message is, its still one of the only instance of that message in this medium (and perhaps in any medium, I haven't yet seen Elephant, but I suspect its message is not quite so radical as SCMRPG's.)

You raise some great points about the classic game/story debate. I'll respond with actions rather than words: I have every intend of creating a storyworld using the Storytron engine which puts you in the role of a new kids (much like Beowulf) who is cajoled by the cool kids (the kings and queens) to fight an alienated kid they call Grendel. There will be a feedback loop in the personality values so that your actions tend to catalyze the Grendel's further alienation, to the point of a violent climax that can be resolved in a number of different ways. Through numerous replays, people should get a sense of the social forces at work in creating school shooters, and eventually they should be able to figure out how to manipulate an otherwise extremely difficult course where the player and Grendel become friends, or the situation is otherwise diffused. That will be called Pack Appeal and will utilize play, the lifeblood of the medium, to the fullest thematic potential I can muster.

Look for it in late '06/ early '07.

The problem here is that no one is going to watch ...

2006-04-26T13:58:00.000-04:00

The problem here is that no one is going to watch Capturing the Friedmans to get their sexual kicks so to speak. While the film may deal with the subject matter of child abuse, incest, and other taboo subjects, it by itself is not pornography. The film is neither exploitive nor needlessly graphic.

Super Columbine Massacre RPG! (I think the exclamation mark is part of the name) has none of this nuance embedded in its play. You still run around using your crude and limited vocabulary to kill kids. There's little available choice for the player, in fact by emulating all the typical trappings of the console RPG the designers have undoubtedly intended that this be a linear experience.

See, to me its not enough for the metaphor of the game to be thought-provoking and interesting. Why can't the play itself be the interesting and thought-provoking and artistic part of the game instead of the metaphor or the narrative? Wouldn't a game be much more interesting if rather than forcing you to kill X number of teenagers at Columbine you were placed in the role of a bullied, manic-depressive kid who was compelled through the game experience to kill others? Otherwise, the experience afforded in Super Columbine Massacre RPG! has been done far better in other mediums like Gus Van Sant's Elephant.

Is Super Columbine Massacre RPG! still art? Yes, if for no other reason than any game is art. Is it bad art? It certainly strikes me as a bad example of game art.

Yeah, I've never been a fan of law, but taboo is m...

2006-04-26T12:31:00.000-04:00

Yeah, I've never been a fan of law, but taboo is much more insidious a specter.

Haha, I wouldn't be suprised if using the term "poetic terrorism" got me on their watch list. Hey guys, if you're listenting, I mean to blow up no buildings, only concepts.

I appreciate your agreement, both of you. Of course, its speaks to the nature of intefaces that they frame thought and conversation according to the terms of the interface content, so its unsuprising the 1-up post would rally comments about how horrible the game makers are, and this one would rally sympathetic agreement. Any people with a nasty feeling in their stomach, please speak up! I want some debate.

At the end of the day, it comes down to whose willing to make the games that need to be made.

Nice post. I would go so far as to say that if ar...

2006-04-26T09:32:00.000-04:00

Nice post. I would go so far as to say that if art can't be about taboo subjects then what the fuck is the point? I'm not saying that there can't be a good dash of entertainment out there (and a large portion of media falls into that category), but to be challenged means going beyond boundaries. I'm all for what Hakim Bey termed Poetic Terrorism (sorry if that word attracts NSA trolls, but maybe they'll learn something). I'll be sure to check out the game this evening.

Well said. To say that we should avoid legislatio...

2006-04-26T02:27:00.000-04:00

Well said.

To say that we should avoid legislation and instead just say as a community, "Let's not go there, guys," is to say that creative expression should not be regulated by law but by taboo. And frankly, that's a WORSE proposition. Law permits the accused a to defend himself rationally; taboo allows no rebuttal.

The internet is a conversation between two socially-inept friends where the whole world has the option to listen in. If you don't like the conversation, don't listen in. If you're worried a weak impressionable mind will hear something persuasive, then make sure you're making noise that's equally persuasive for the opposing viewpoint.

Taste comes from idolising the good, not vilifying the bad, and it can never, ever be successfully controlled.